I guess shops is here for good. Interesting how he admits it now.
The entire B&R argument can be summed up as:
"Paper's too OP we should restrict it; but Scissors are fine" ~ Rock.
A B&R should not be used to cater to pet decks. I think the format is adapting fairly well, as we tend to see different decks on the weekly challenge top 8s. Who knows, maybe more blue decks top 8 because people like playing blue. May dredge doesn't top as much because people think it's boring.
@Smmenen off topic but I just want to point out that the placebo effect is a legitimate treatment, especially in the sense of somatic disorders where mental illness may manifest as physical symptoms. You give the patient reassurance and placebo to improve his/her mental health and the physical symptoms may improve.
Win rate matters because top 4ing isn't supppsed to be looked at in a vacuum. You need to look at top 4 penetrance. If SIGNIFICANTLY more people play blue decks, you can assume that more will top 4 (assuming 50% win rate). Now if a greater proportion of shops players top 4 (proportion, not raw number), then you can argue that despite less total tops, it has a higher penetrance and is this a better deck for the current meta.
@smmenen it just makes so much sense. Fastbond would open up new archetypes and it wouldn’t be overwhelming. 4x probe isn’t nearly as abusive without 4x mentor. Perfect information is bleh, but it’s not like storm will dominate (if anything, it’s underperforming atm). Ravager is a good ban because it homogenizes shops too much. Without it, I can see Stax making a comeback.
1 Black Lotus
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
2 Goblin Chieftain
1 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
1 Goblin Settler
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
4 Magus of the Moon
1 Murderous Redcap
4 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
4 Blood Moon
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
4 City of Traitors
4 Ingot Chewer
1 Shattering Spree
2 Sulfur Elemental
4 Thorn of Amthyst
2 Tormod's Crypt
Current draft of a Goblin stompy deck based off of the legacy version. Wins with moon effects and random beats. Pretty fun.
I think what @HouseOfCards is getting at (correct me if i'm wrong) is the archtypes currently list mentor, big blue, and blue control as different decks were as shops is just one category. However, within shops, there is stax, TKS, ravager, percusor golems, etc.
Basically if we VERY broadly organize decks, we have
- Blue control
- Bazaar based
- Workshop based
If blue based control was broken down, you'd have mentor, big blue, etc. The issue is why are blue decks separated when shops aren't. I'd argue stax vs ravager MUD has just a big difference as standstill vs mentor.
Salvager is probably one of my favorite creature cards (after Goblin Welder of course :P). One of the fundamental questions we have to ask is that in a U/W/x style deck, what does Salvager + Lotus + Spellbomb/Ballista offer that current decks do not. You get the instant "I win" factor, but the combo is very soft to graveyard hate, Phyrexian Revoker, Spheres, Null Rod, Stony Silence, and Pithing Needle.
Another deck I want to look at that has similar weaknesses and relies on resolving a 4 CMC spell to "go off" is Paradoxical Outcome based decks. I feel like compared to PO, Salvager + Trinket mage is just clunkier + draws less cards.
What you gain however, is a better plan B. You can beat people with 2/2s and 2/4s. That used to be good enough. But recently, I feel like with the new creatures and how aggressive shops are, Eldrazi being a thing, and tokens + STP everywhere, that bomberman is just too fragile.
Of course I hope someone proves me wrong because I want to play bomberman again.
I think the DCI should have a laissez faire approach to the B&R list. If we go back to the Chalice or Lodestone ban, it seems that it was made because of people complaining about "fun". I don't think either should have been restricted because they were shop's answer to blue card advantage (you can disagree with me on this). I have some pet cards that I would love to play again (restrict revoker + ballista please for Goblin Welder), but I don't think we should use personal preference to determine the B&R. Now, some people think that we should because at the end of the day, Magic is a game and a game is meant to be fun. I respect that opinion, but I disagree.
What's fun for one person is not the same for another. As a result of it's subjectivity, I think the default, purest way to go about the B&R is to go by objective "brokenness." I don't think Gush was fun. I think it's stupid and boring. However, I don't think it was inherently "broken" either. It canabalized blue, yes, but it also got WRECKED by thorns. If we go to rock-paper-scissors of pregush restriction, i'd argue that big blue > shops > gush > big blue. The issue was that people enjoyed gush more than big blue, despite the poorer shops matchup. This lead to people who play big blue to feel bad because they have to face more gush decks than expected. However, that's an issue with preference, and not "brokenness."
tl;dr I think the B&R should be used for brokenness, not fun. One man's trash is another man's Goblin Welder.
And to be clear, my post may be incoherent because i'm tired AF from studying. I'm also a Goblin Welder fanboy so the whole Gush vs. Mana Drain discussion doesn't really bother me as I would play Mishra's Workshop regardless.