I have also been playing around with a blue splash in this deck, and it has felt pretty good. The big issue I've found is really that the deck is already so streamlined. There's like 2-3 flex slots in the entire deck.
Stitcher's is one of the best cards in the deck imo, I don't love putting in a replacement that has summoning sickness and requires to be tapped so you can't use it to cast gaak. I do think that mulling aggressively to bazaar is a trap. Bazaar is the best card in the deck, but it isn't needed in every game.
@thewhitedragon69 said in Pitch Dredge:
@notmi I'm thinking more along the lines of traditional pitch dredge - not the DRS/bazaar/survival type builds. That's a totally different deck imo. If you are running dredgers and dread returns for FKZ or something like that, then it is almost certainly more like traditional dredge than hogaak/vine/drs builds.
We were specifically talking about hogaak and not dredge
@thewhitedragon69 said in Pitch Dredge:
@botvinik Mulling to bazaar is almost always what the deck wants to do. So much so, I think they can just call it "Mull to Bazaar.dec". Without that key engine card, dredging is uber slow, Hollow One is uncastable, and Hogaak will rarely land. Without bazaar, you basically will not win until turn 7+, and that's just too slow.
In regards to jailer/priest, you could run sickening shoal out of the SB (or main if it is such a big thing in your meta), which is turned on by so many more cards in dredge and relieves reliance on blue as well as having the shoal at the exact moment they cast the hate. Leyline and cage are such a big thing in Vintage on a universal level, it's hard to see not playing 4x FoV (your meta seems very warped and narrow). Even vs spheres, a single mana in play lets you kill the sphere AND cage in one shot. Shoal means you might answer the sphere, but then need a 2nd shoal + blue card to hit the cage, which is a tall order. running a petrified field, which is good to get back bazaar anyway, or a copy or two of riftstone portal is fine for just the single mana you need to 2-for-2 the opp playing spheres.
In regards to hagaak, mulling to bazaar is terrible advice. It's a 4 drs fetchlands deck for a reason.
@psyburat posted a small tournament report he placed second in with the deck. Asking focused questions there should get you good answers. Failing that, the vintage streaming discord is always a good source for information about a deck.
Hogaak specifically would absolutely smash a white eldrazi meta, if that's anything you're interested in.
@botvinik said in Pitch Dredge:
Wait you are a dredge expert right? Can you tell my why no one plays flamekin zealot anymore?
Actually, with the advent of tabernacle and surgical as the primary grave hate on mtgo, people have been experimenting with all kinds of different dread return targets. People tried a bit of zealot, but generally speaking flayer of the hatebound does the same thing, but without requiring you to attack, which comes up against golos most often.
Interestingly, most dredge pilots have settled on the idea that dread return isn't needed at all in current meta, because it was most impactful in mirrors for elish norn, and it's better to just be more robust with creeping chill and ichorids to beat tabernacle.
@botvinik said in Pitch Dredge:
Where you have FOV I have disrupting shoal. There are some other small differences but that is what I included instead of FOV.
I think vigor is straight up the best card printed for dredge in a very, very long time. Vigor itself was a large part of what got grave troll restricted, because it made the vigors so consistent that it became somewhat oppressive. I wouldn't register a 75 without 4 of them in my bazaar deck.
@botvinik said in Pitch Dredge:
The reason is I don’t like loosing to sphere into cage from shops so I run more unmasks.
I actually really like unmask in dredge, it's one of the most undervalued pieces of interaction imo. When I got second in the challenge with dredge I was playing 4 total copies of it in my 75.
This is a clickable link to my challenge deck
@botvinik said in Pitch Dredge:
I don’t claim that my build is correct but I claim my decision is correct in my build.
Playing less than 4 vigor in your 75 in dredge is incorrect. Can you explain what about your build makes you not want to be capable of beating shops, or any grave hate, or PO?
Small tangent, but shell is actually the one dredger you can't trim on in current lists because you need the green count for force of vigor, and you get to fudge on the numbers by being able to dredge into your green card.
@vaughnbros said in [ZRN] Omnath, Locus of Creation:
I can't even find a single result from Belcher in the last 2 years on that website. Its not just tier 2, its tier non-existent.
I'd love to post on here more, but its impossible to have a discussion or debate when every one seem to get hung up on very basic things, like that glass cannon decks are fucken terrible.
I actually 5-0'd with belcher the day the new set got released on mtgo using substandard spell lands because I couldn't find the ones that came in untapped for sale. There are a handful of us grinding the deck on mtgo right now, and while it's not going to break the format, it definitely feels playable.