That makes a lot more sense.
Yeah, I think sevinne's is a solid card to play, especially if you've also got a few 3 mana walkers in the deck. Intuition also seems pretty reasonable reasonable.
If you're already cutting the combo down to the minimum why play not play the xerox style of the deck that has already had decent success? Cutting dead combo pieces like brainfreeze and adding other dead combo pieces like thassa's oracle doesn't seem like an improvement, just an equal change.
The entire thought process behind the deck was to build a xerox style strategy with a powerful combo finish to beat other xerox decks, if I recall chubby's statements correctly. It is notably dipping into black as a 4th color in order to facilitate that, which pretty obviously separates it from normal jeskai mentor.
Considering you wanted to play UR standstill, by dropping you drastically improved the lives of everyone else playing the challenge as well. Good job.
People have already been having success with thassa's oracle. Multiple 5-0's in dedicated combo decks with demonic consultation.
@pugsuperstar said in [TBD] Underworld Breach:
I've been trying your Breach Oath build out on MTGO practice rooms and wanted to ask you a few questions.
How you combat other combo decks that are faster than you?
Your previous build used Vault/Key as a wincon. How is this version winning through zombie/pyromancer tokens or a few shops creatures?
Would you consider Saheeli (this was suggested to me on Twitter) to win the turn Titan enters play? Would this just make it the old Saheeli Titan Oath? Does Breach make that build stronger?
Against decks like PO and DPS, you slide into a control role with tons of counterspells and look to play a xerox game until you eventually win, often with some incidental wincon like oko beats or attacking with a hardcast sun titan. I actually tend to trim an oath against the super fast combo decks, because the games are rarely about resolving an early oath.
The vault/key stuff has been replaced with a much more efficient wincon in bolt. You can just bolt them 7 times, bolt is less dead in most matchups, and it takes up way fewer slots mainboard and sideboard.
I would not consider saheeli at all. Breach is significantly better than the old saheeli lists because breach is actually a playable vintage card that is reasonable to put in your deck without any kind of combo. Saheeli is pretty awful to put in your deck. Generally speaking, hardcasting and resolving a breach wins the game a decent percentage of the time. Hardcasting and resolving a saheeli is a wasted turn.
If you're putting a titan into play, getting back breach, and mill over 20 or so cards, you should be able to figure out a way to win from there. It might involve time walks and okos, it might involve bolts, or some other combination of cards, but it's hard to lose when you draw 20 cards.
@stormanimagus said in [TBD] Underworld Breach:
What is Memory's Journey for in these lists?
Also, Mind Funeral WTF?
What you have to understand is that this deck actively uses the graveyard as the hand on the turn you oath. There are times when it's correct to oath with zero oath targets in deck, mill yourself, then memory's journey in your upkeep with escape to put specific cards on top to draw. Journey is the best option I think, instant speed, has flashback, blue to pitch to force.
Also, the idea behind mind funeral was to go away from the pseudo-prison role that nearly every deck has to play against dredge and instead play 4 cards that just actively win the game when cast. Standard dredge lists play 4 bazaar and mulls to 1 of them, so mind funeral should always put them to zero cards in deck. It's also a very quick and easy kill if you ever manage to resolve an oath trigger to get back breach, even if they've made 100 zombies you can never fight through.
It has worked in practice, but I think three mana is too slow even with all the mana rocks I'm playing.
This is what I played to a top 8 two weeks ago and have been playing in leagues since. I skipped the challenge last week, but this maindeck is still very good imo. The sideboard from this list is terrible, I was trying to play mind funeral to beat dredge as a meme, and I'm still trying different hate cards, but mind funeral is not the answer lol. I'm gonna run the maindeck card for card next challenge though.
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/2705391#online
The thing I enjoy most about the deck compared to the more standard japanese oath lists is knowing that my oath triggers will usually just win the game. It always felt awful oathing into something, drawing some cards, then having to pass back and hope it was enough.
I think that a deck siding in grave hate, aside from cage, is actually good for the oath deck. Cage is obviously really good because it stops pretty much everything, but the more common grave hate answers in leyline and rav trap are actively bad when you can just transition into a xerox deck and pressure them with oko.
Honestly, the first list felt really smooth even with the combo pieces, and I naturally vault-keyed people multiple times without oath triggers just by playing a xerox game. Cutting things down to a more streamlined control deck in the second iteration was largely because the combo pieces felt unneeded in games where I actually resolved an oath trigger.
Also, I say the combo heavy first iteration felt smooth, but several people after me tried the list and had pretty terrible runs with it, so I think I might have just drawn the right half of the deck at the right times. The second list has a lot less dead cards while retaining a high probability to win with a single oath trigger, so I think it's a better version.