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posted in Single-Card Discussion read more

Narset feels better because outside of the draw killing static she is also

Easier to cast that Leo or Notion Thief
Harder to kill than any of them
Is Blue unlike Spirit

It's very much a confluence of things. I suspect if Spirit of the Labyrinth was blue this conversation would have been happening a while ago.

posted in Single-Card Discussion read more

Dumb question maybe, but Wrenn and Six in most lists reads like a 2 mana personal howling mine every turn. There is a lot more to that obviously but at its core it's a CA engine, not to mention the tutoring aspect.

People are looking for ways to make it better but how much better would a 1 sided howling mine need to be? If WOTC printed a literal 2 CMC artifact that said T: Draw a card. Only playable at sorcery speed. people would be besides themselves and I don't think that is even as good as this card.

What is it that the card does not do that people want it to do to meet their criteria for a good, playable card in vintage.

posted in Workshops read more

@serracollector said in Tiny Forgebots:

If you removed all the disruption from the original list shown above in post 1 and went with say:

-4 revoker
-1 chalice
-1 thorn
-1 skull clamp

And added:
+4 frogmite
+2 Helm of Awakening
+1 Mox Opal

How much would it speed it up?
Just theory crafting here, but dropping a helm shouldn't be an issue since you "should" win that turn most of the time, right? Or is it too much a liability?

I'm not actually sure removing the disruption would make it faster by any measurable stat. Most of the disruption already makes the deck faster by virtue of being an artifact in play and contributing as ravager food.

There are also some other interesting cost reduction cards that could be used other than cloud key and Helm of awakening:

Locket of Yesterdays - The deck has a lot of 4 ofs and does bin a lot of cards
Mycosynth Golem - It does not seem unreasonable that this could come into play on turn 2 if you start to combo off
Semblance Anvil - I Believe this was in a few artifact combo decks in the past.

That being said I'm not sure its worth dropping disruption to play them in the least, because the deck is already so low on CMC that I don't think they do that much more to reduce cost than just having another rock in play.

posted in Workshops read more

@brass-man said in Tiny Forgebots:

Surely not in this Workshop build, right? The deck has Petal/Pearl/Lotus/Opal for 4 total white sources (assuming the 2nd Opal gets cut for Lotus). LED would make it 5, but you can't cast Salvagers with LED. You'd need to change a lot of cards before you could ever expect to cast a white spell consistently, even if you didn't mind the fact that you can't play Salvagers off of Forge.
Maybe there's a Salvagers/Forge deck but I'm guessing it wouldn't share a lot of cards with this one.

I don't think it is that outlandish. 5-6 white sources plus a singleton copy of salvagers. You can play them off LED if they are on the top of your deck. Just float 3 white then top them to your hand. Since the decks combo right now is the ability to draw your deck just a single salvagers lets you pretty consistently go infinite for as large a ballista as you need.

I mean, there are any number of ways to win once you draw your deck but as it stands your list does not have any way of beating a resolved infinite life combo, be it Zuran Orb/Fastbond/Crucible or some sort of Soul sisters or whatever. Salvagers would allow you to. That being said, could be a sideboard option as opposed to main deck.

As for Chalice, your deck has no 3s or 5s which is where the free counters live, so that could be the play. I think it might be a better sideboard card in this list than the main though, since what you are doing is not Shops in a traditional sense.

posted in Off-Topic read more

Not interested. I don't feel like I have the same nostalgia for old formats that many do, I would rather play my older cards in new compelling ways.

The thing about vintage that compels me more so than Legacy is the restricted list. I find that I like the skill that is required from a player to deal with the variance that comes from having powerful bomb cards that only can come up every so often. I thought I would like that about Commander but it turns out I'm not a fan of multiplayer, nor am I a fan of house rules style stuff. Commander games are actually surprisingly consistent when you factor in the fact that you start with an 8 card hand that always has 1 legend of your choice in it.

The most compelling vintage format to me would be singleton vintage, where everything except basics is restricted but it is otherwise identical to this current format. I think in a format with that much variance not only would you see real reliance on player skills you would also see decks that are slightly worse but more consistent have a much better shot at winning.

It would also limit the number of degenerate lists that have one game plan (mull to X for Bazaar, Shops lock on turn 0, Oath orchard turn one win) and would force players into playing well rounded decks which I suspect would include control as well as creature based lists. The format also now has enough free, turn 0 counters with the printing of Force of Negation that I suspect it can handle degenerate turn 0's.

posted in Workshops read more

I suspect getting metalcraft to be very important to both builds, so even the idea of a led that is nothing more than a trinket seems fine to me.

Speaking of combo, has anyone tried throwing a salvagers in here? If you have both lotus and led it could help enable you to go off at times where you cannot otherwise push through. Infinite ballista gets the job done unless your opponent is behind a leyline and an ensnaring bridge at hellbent.

posted in Workshops read more

@zias said in Tiny Forgebots:

I think it qualifies as a "combo" card here because it does nothing without Forge.

Cranial plating does nothing without creatures, I would not call that a combo. Just sitting in play is something if you run frogmites.

posted in Workshops read more

LED does not feel combo to me, since you are playing off the top for the most part. I guess part of my question would be how many cards are you holding in hand on average and saving for later vs how much are you just trying to draw gas to make things go.

posted in Workshops read more

I just noticed your list does not have black lotus? Typo?

Any consideration for Vault key in this? Key had other applications in the deck like mana generation.

ALso, LED?

posted in Workshops read more

Is memnite better than Frogmite? It feels like 2 power is more relevant in a failstate like null rod and the times where you do not have affinity for the frogmite it is doubtful that memnite would serve you much better. It feels like Myr Enforcer could easily make its way down for free, though that may be too greedy.

Is there any consideration for Defense Grid? It feels like a more relevant sphere for a deck that just wants to go off all at once.