Joined
Last Online
Recent Posts
posted in Hate Bears read more

The list looks aggressive and clean, though it lacks interactive cards. Adding more sanctum prelates is one way to put the brakes on faster decks. General Kudro looks like a house in such an aggressive deck.

What I don´t get is the manabase: Why do you run a five-colour manabase in a three-colour deck? A fetch and dual base could be made stable and compact and would support your non-human cards better. In particular, I dislike both unclaimed territory, nurturing peatland and silent clearing, since they don´t cast ouphes and plows.

The best part of playing fetches and duals is of course to support Knight of reliquary 🙂 That way, adding those utility lands actually becomes worthwhile.

posted in Hate Bears read more

@guli said in Junk Hatebears:

Facing Oko is not great magic I agree, and you can't have infinite decays. Did you bring in the Pyroblasts? Decays AND Pyroblast should destroy Oath these days. On paper it looks like you have a very strong match up against Oath. But sometimes their advantage of card draw/deck manipulation and a Oko that isn't answered quickly, could result in ; them stealing a game.

Agreed. Yes, I sided in the pyroblasts.

@griselbrother said in Junk Hatebears:

@recklessmbermage
Aven Mindcensor in response to Doomsday is pretty funny.

That does sound funny! It is a turn two play though, which I think is going to be too late a lot of the time. This deck is hurt quite a bit by leonin arbiter, but that seems like a stronger card than mindcensor against Doomsday. If I were to sideboard any of the two, I would go for the arbiter and accept the dissynergy with the manabase and the knights.

@tittliewinks22 said in Junk Hatebears:

If library is coming in for 11 matchups, maybe you could mpve it to md.

I also thought so for a while. This list maindecks fairly narrow but strong cards for two kinds of match-ups: Ouphes and forces for fast artifact-based opponents and knights and W6 for grindy opponents. When sideboarding, it will typically cut cards from one of these categories (and Thalias when facing taxing decks) and board in more cards from the other. Youll notice from the sideboard plan that the deck sideboards a large number of cards for any match-up. Sylvan library is probably at its strongest against oath, but in general confidant is a higher impact card and what I want to play maindeck. Library comes in in most matches because it is better than one of the narrower cards that are cut, not due to its own strength. It also helps that it bolsters the green-count post-board.

In my last post, I didn´t give any credit to the players that bested the rest of us in the tournament: Breach took down Mentor Paradoxical in one semifinal, while Hollowvine beat Oath. Mentor Paradoxical took third place over Oath, while HollowVine beat Breach in the finals. All four very competent players on strong decks.

posted in Hate Bears read more

Hi all,

The Cave Open was held 11.07. I didn’t have a good tournament and went 2-3. This was the meta: Oath, Jeskai Arcanist, Bug Aggro, White Eldrazi, Golos Stax, HollowVine, PO Storm, PO Mentor, Doomsday, Breach, 4-colour Planeswalker Control, Bant Aggro, Song of Creation Combo and yours truly.
A short write-up of my matches at the bottom. Since I use this forum as a notebook for coming years, Ill include the sideboard plan first. Feel free to scroll right through it.

I had made a few more changes, notably making room for the fourth confidant and fourth Knight in the sideboard for grindy matchups. This is what I went with:

3 windswept heath
3 verdant catacombs
2 savannah
1 taiga
1 bayou
1 scrubland
4 wasteland
1 strip mine
1 karakas
1 the tabernacle at Pendrell Vale

1 black lotus
1 mox emerald
1 mox pearl
1 mox jet
1 mox ruby
2 mox diamond
1 chalice of the void

4 wrenn and six
2 swords to plowshares
1 mental misstep
3 abrupt decay
4 once upon a time
4 force of vigor

4 deathrite shaman
4 thalia, guardian of thraben
2 collector ouphe
3 dark confidant
3 knight of the reliquary

Sideboard:
1 swords to plowshares (Comes in in 7 matchups)
2 surgical extraction (Comes in in 6 matchups)
3 pyroblast (Comes in in 9 matchups)
1 abrupt decay (Comes in in 9 matchups)
1 grafdiggers cage (Comes in in 5 matchups)
1 sylvan library (Comes in in 11 matchups)
1 dark confidant (Comes in in 8 matchups)
2 collector ouphe (Comes in in 5 matchups)
1 elvish reclaimer (Comes in in 8 matchups)
1 scavenging ooze (Comes in in 8 matchups)
1 Knight of the reliquary (Comes in in 8 matchups)

Updated sideboard plan:

Oath: -2 collector ouphe, -3 dark confidant, -4 deathrite shaman, -1 savannah, -1 tabernacle, -1 chalice (11) +2 surgical extraction, +1 abrupt decay, +3 pyroblast, +1 sylvan library, +1 swords to plowshares, +1 elvish reclaimer, +1 grafdiggers cage, +1 knight of the reliquary (11) (22 green in library, minimum)

Im not particularly happy with elvish reclaimer against oath. If I play reclaimer and the opponent responds with oath, the reclaimer can only find a tapped Karakas and the oath player gets a full turn to go off. At the same time, I have a bunch of creatures that are little but liabilities against oath that I want to take out. Loosing containment priest hurts here. Grafdiggers cage is a weaker card in my deck, but I like having a strong one-drop and a piece of hate that is not a creature.

2x UR Arcanist (brings in blood moon): -2 collector ouphe, -1 Karakas, -1 force of vigor, -4 once upon a time, -1 mox ruby, -2 swords to plowshares (11) +1 abrupt decay, +3 pyroblast, +1 sylvan library, +1 Knight of the reliquary, +1 elvish reclaimer, +1 dark confidant, +1 scavenging ooze, +2 surgical extraction (11) (22 green in library)

I will try to get maximum value from all my cards and if I can kill off or control arcanist, I should dominate on the board. The surgicals are earmarked lightning bolt, but can function as a counter to a flashbacked ancestral. The three pyroblasts and last plow in the deck are weak to his counter-magic. I will do what I can to play them on his turn.

Jeskai Arcanist: -4 force of vigor, -4 once upon a time, -2 collector ouphe, -1 mox ruby (11) +1 abrupt decay, +3 pyroblast, +1 sylvan library, +1 knight of the reliquary, +2 surgical extraction, +1 scavenging ooze, +1 elvish reclaimer, +1 dark confidant (11)

In this matchup, there are still weak cards in the deck after boarding. I think I should drop one mana source, but am unsure if the ruby is weaker than the second surgical extraction, or if the third swords to plowshares should come in.

Bug Delver: -3 force of vigor, -4 once upon a time, -2 collector ouphe (9) +3 pyroblast, +1 swords to plowshares, +1 sylvan library, +1 knight of the reliquary, +1 scavenging ooze, +1 elvish reclaimer, +1 dark confidant (9)

This should be one of my hardest matchups. I plan to keep all my mana, and even tabernacle as a late-game option I could try to maneuver towards if I fall behind on creatures. My opponent probably plays TNN, and after cutting plague engineers, I need to counter it with pyroblast or pressure with two knights to go over it. The fourth dark confidant found its place in the sideboard mainly for this match. Deathrite and W6 should be really good, while Thalia could be cut if I decide I want 1-2 more force of vigors for leylines and other sideboard tech on his side.

White Eldrazi: -1 force of vigor, -1 once upon a time, -1 chalice of the void, -1 mental misstep, -2 collector ouphe, -1 thalia, (7) +1 swords to plowshares, +1 abrupt decay, +1 knight of the reliquary, +1 scavenging ooze, +1 elvish reclaimer, +1 sylvan library, +1 dark confidant (7) (25 green in library)

This sideboarding looks strange, but I believe that after ouphe, chalice and misstep, the fourth thalia and the fourth force are the worst cards in my deck.

Ravager Shops: -1 chalice of the void, -1 mental misstep, -3 thalia, -2 once upon a time (7) +1 swords to plowshares, +2 collector ouphe, +1 knight of the reliquary, +1 elvish reclaimer, +1 scavenging ooze, +1 dark confidant (7) (26 green in library)

The shops player may opt to play Golos stax or something similar. Even though games change, I believe sideboarding should be the same: I have enough removal to be the control, and I will cut 3 or 4 thalia, since it slows down all the removal spells.

HollowVine: -2 collector ouphe, -3 abrupt decay, -1 mental misstep, -1 chalice of the void, -1 Karakas (8) +1 swords to plowshares, +1 scavenging ooze, +1 elvish reclaimer, +1 knight of the reliquary, +2 surgical extraction, +1 sylvan library, +1 grafdiggers cage (8) (23 green in library)

The plan here is really simple: Kill the first few creatures with spells, stonewall with Kotr for a turn and land tabernacle. W6 gets tabernacle back if he wastes it and tries for a comeback. Im not interested in paying an extra red to pyroblast his counterspells: There’s no time, and he will run out of counterspells quickly.

PO Storm: -4 deathrite, -2 wrenn and six, -1 Karakas, -1 Savannah, -1 Tabernacle (9) +2 collector ouphe, +3 pyroblast, +1 sylvan library, +1 swords to plowshares, +1 abrupt decay, +1 grafdiggers cage (9) (22 green in library, minimum)

The single grafdiggers cage made its way into the library because it answers tinker perfectly (I hadn’t considered that it stops Bolas’ citadel).

PO Mentor: -3 deathrite, -1 dark confidant, -4 wrenn and six, -1 Karakas, -1 Savannah (10) +2 collector ouphe, +3 pyroblast, +1 sylvan library, +knight of the reliquary, +1 swords to plowshares, +1 abrupt decay, +1 grafdiggers cage (9) (22 green in library, minimum)

I will try to find out if he plays back to basics. If he does, I will keep in 3 deathrites and cut the tabernacle and one knight instead. Tabernacle isn’t a great answer to monastery mentor in this matchup, since he plays a bunch of basic lands.

Bomberman: -2 mox diamond, -4 wrenn and six, -2 swords to plowshares, -1 Karakas, -1 Savannah, -1 Tabernacle (11) +2 collector ouphe, +3 pyroblast, +1 sylvan library, +1 abrupt decay, +2 surgical extraction, +1 scavenging ooze, +1 dark confidant (10) (25 green in library).

I will be on the lookout for tinker in his main or side and side in cage and plows if I see it. All my hate hits bomberman hard, so this match should be one of my easiest, as long as he aims for the salvagers kill.

Breach: -2 mox diamond, -4 wrenn and six, -4 force of vigor, -1 swords to plowshares, -1 Karakas, -1 Tabernacle (13) +2 collector ouphe, +3 pyroblast, +1 sylvan library, +1 abrupt decay, +2 surgical extraction, +1 scavenging ooze, +1 dark confidant, +1 grafdiggers cage, +1 knight of the reliquary (13)

I’ve never played against breach before, but it seems as though it needs a few turns to set up while it plays control. So I can ease a bit on the fast mana. W6 looks lackluster, but as far as I can discern, he cannot win through thalia, ouphe or cage. At the meantime, deathrite and ooze snack at his graveyard. Surgical should probably be aimed at ancestral or bolt in the midgame or black lotus or lions eye diamond if he is about to go off. I may be wrong here, but it seems like I should not aim at his combo pieces directly (breach, brain freeze or sprite dragon), since I will win the game if I can prevent his deck from functioning and lose the game if I spend too much resources trying to survive. Still: Pyroblasts, abrupt decays and the last remaining plow can easily be aimed at a sprite dragon.

Tourney Report:

In the weeks prior to the tourney, I had played plenty of vintage and thought of vintage way more than I should. I had slept poorly and wasn´t very focused. I also intended to be drunk from round one: I like that very much, but it contributed to keeping hands I shouldn´t have kept and not reading my opponents all too well. Needless to say, I am not at all happy with the 2-3 record.

Match 1: 2-1 against Bug Aggro

I was well prepared for this matchup. It revolves around having deathrite supremacy: Whoever uses deathrite the best and/or nukes the other player’s deathrites will come out on top. I have W6 and Knight as trumps, but can still lose to TNN and Leovold.

I drew a completely bonkers lotus hand game 1. He played TNN relatively early but needed to keep it on defense against Kotr, which is a hard position to win from. I ended up grinding him out with Tabernacle and deathrite. Game 2 I had advantage on the board, but he beat me down with TNN. Game 3, I had another bonkers lotus hand and nuked several of his lands with W6.

Match 2: 1-2 against Doomsday

This was the match-up I feared the most going into the tournament. My disruption is quite poor against him. The doomsday player can choose to put 2 thassa´s oracle in the pile and go off slowly, playing the second as his last card. Force of vigor is pretty much useless and ouphe only cuts him off his fastest win with lotus. I basically need to hit Thalia turn one and follow up with 2-3 wastelands to have a chance. If he resolves Doomsday, I´m pretty much done for.

I managed to steal game 1 with several wastelands and a timely misstep on dark ritual (after letting mystical tutor resolve). Game 2 I made the biggest mistake of the tournament: I was gunning for turn one Thalia, and kept a six card hand with bayou, mox emerald and once upon a time, hoping to see Thalia. I saw Thalia, but couldn´t keep it, since I lacked white mana. I ended up taking a deathrite instead and got steamrolled. In game 3 I was able to pressure his manabase some and decided to play Kotr on turn 3-4, rather than hold abrupt decay for Oracle, when he was on 2 lands. He drew another land, cast Doomsday and won on the spot. He revealed after the game that he had put a back-up thassa´s oracle in his pile: Decaying the first oracle would have delayed his win with 2 turns, which would still have been fast enough.

I only knew about this deck being in the meta two days before the tourney and decided not to adjust. I onestly don´t know how to adjust.

Match 3: 2-0 against Golos Stax

This seems like a very favourable match-up. I have W6 to out-grind him, deathrite to stay ahead on mana and Knight to tower over his creatures.

In game 1, I opened on a land and a mox and established my mana effectively, while keeping him below five mana at all times. He played crucible, but I had W6 and wasteland and used deathrite to keep his graveyard devoid of lands. In game two, he opened on land, mox, sphere of resistence. I answered with land, mox ruby, mox emerald, mox diamond. He went to play his second sphere and I responded with force of vigor on his mox and first sphere. I was out of cards, but drew business and started nuking his lands. He couldn’t play a meaningful spell after that.

Match 4: 0-2 against oath

This was possibly the most miserable game of magic I have played in my life. I believe my match-up against oath is quite strong, but I had not properly identified Oko as the card to aim for in the match-up.

Game 1 took forever: I destroyed 1 or 2 oaths, but he played Oko, which my deck has difficulty beating through. The stupid subgame of elks ramming into eachother lasted until he hardcast Niv-Mizzet and then Griselbrand for the win. I thought I could manage Niv-Mizzet, but should have scooped to save a few minutes. Game 2 was extremely frustrating. He went orchard, mox oath. I responded with land, mox, abrupt decay, surgical extraction on oath (!!!). After that I tried to play as fast as possible, to have time for a game 3, but he played 3 Okos: I beat the first one down, spending ages to do so, abrupt decayed the second and ended up losing to the third. I´m sure if I had realized that there was only time for two matches, I would have beaten the third Oko and got a draw. I was on tilt most of the match and played sloppily, due both to my anger and drunkenness. My opponent (a dear old friend) also played as fast as humanly possible. Oko stole at least 40 minutes of our time, and I have nothing but hate for that card.

Match 5: 1-2 against PO Storm

This match-up clearly favours me. The two of us have played about a hundred games and I´ve won the vast majority. But to win, I need to play two of Thalia/ouphe/force of vigor by turn two. In two games that day, I didn´t draw more than one such piece and he drew very strong hands. He had Bolas Citadel turn two in both those games. I´m honestly not a hundred percent sure that I took a game from him. I think we had one of those games where he forces a Thalia, but I ride ouphe to victory.

After the event, I´m very happy with the deck, both maindeck and sideboard, and I wholeheartedly recommend trying it out. Chime in if you have a good idea for how to adjust to Doomsday.

posted in Vintage Strategy read more

Would it help to play W6 yourself?

Deathrite shaman is good against it, as well as scavenging ooze. You could also try to make your deck more aggressive, to make W6 less relevant. Scab-clan marauder comes to mind.

posted in Hate Bears read more

Hi all,

Since last update I have tested little, but pondered and discussed my options and done some changes.

The expected meta is now: Oath, 2x UR Arcanist, Jeskai Arcanist, Bug Delver, White Eldrazi, Ravager Shops, HollowVine, PO Storm, PO Mentor, Bomberman, Breach and 1x blue nonsense

New cards highlighted:

3 windswept heath
3 verdant catacombs
2 savannah
1 taiga
1 bayou
1 scrubland
4 wasteland
1 strip mine
1 karakas
1 the tabernacle at Pendrell Vale

1 black lotus
1 mox emerald
1 mox pearl
1 mox jet
1 mox ruby
2 mox diamond
1 chalice of the void

4 wrenn and six
2 swords to plowshares
1 mental misstep
3 abrupt decay
4 once upon a time
4 force of vigor

4 deathrite shaman
4 thalia, guardian of thraben
2 collector ouphe
3 dark confidant
3 knight of the reliquary

Sideboard:
1 swords to plowshares (Comes in in 7 matchups)
2 surgical extraction (Comes in in 6 matchups)
3 pyroblast (Comes in in 9 matchups)
1 abrupt decay (Comes in in 9 matchups)
1 grafdiggers cage (Comes in in 5 matchups)
1 sylvan library (Comes in in 11 matchups)
1 dark confidant (Comes in in 8 matchups)
2 collector ouphe (Comes in in 5 matchups)
1 elvish reclaimer (Comes in in 8 matchups)
1 scavenging ooze (Comes in in 8 matchups)
1 Knight of the reliquary (Comes in in 8 matchups)

Updated sideboard plan:

Oath: -2 collector ouphe, -3 dark confidant, -4 deathrite shaman, -1 savannah, -1 tabernacle, -1 chalice (11) +2 surgical extraction, +1 abrupt decay, +3 pyroblast, +1 sylvan library, +1 swords to plowshares, +1 elvish reclaimer, +1 grafdiggers cage, +1 knight of the reliquary (11) (22 green in library, minimum)

Im not particularly happy with elvish reclaimer against oath. If I play reclaimer and the opponent responds with oath, the reclaimer can only find a tapped Karakas and the oath player gets a full turn to go off. At the same time, I have a bunch of creatures that are little but liabilities against oath that I want to take out. Loosing containment priest hurts here. Grafdiggers cage is a weaker card in my deck, but I like having a strong one-drop and a piece of hate that is not a creature.

2x UR Arcanist (brings in blood moon): -2 collector ouphe, -1 Karakas, -1 force of vigor, -4 once upon a time, -1 mox ruby, -2 swords to plowshares (11) +1 abrupt decay, +3 pyroblast, +1 sylvan library, +1 Knight of the reliquary, +1 elvish reclaimer, +1 dark confidant, +1 scavenging ooze, +2 surgical extraction (11) (22 green in library)

I will try to get maximum value from all my cards and if I can kill off or control arcanist, I should dominate on the board. The surgicals are earmarked lightning bolt, but can function as a counter to a flashbacked ancestral. The three pyroblasts and last plow in the deck are weak to his counter-magic. I will do what I can to play them on his turn.

Jeskai Arcanist: -4 force of vigor, -4 once upon a time, -2 collector ouphe, -1 mox ruby (11) +1 abrupt decay, +3 pyroblast, +1 sylvan library, +1 knight of the reliquary, +2 surgical extraction, +1 scavenging ooze, +1 elvish reclaimer, +1 dark confidant (11)

In this matchup, there are still weak cards in the deck after boarding. I think I should drop one mana source, but am unsure if the ruby is weaker than the second surgical extraction, or if the third swords to plowshares should come in.

Bug Delver: -3 force of vigor, -4 once upon a time, -2 collector ouphe (9) +3 pyroblast, +1 swords to plowshares, +1 sylvan library, +1 knight of the reliquary, +1 scavenging ooze, +1 elvish reclaimer, +1 dark confidant (9)

This should be one of my hardest matchups. I plan to keep all my mana, and even tabernacle as a late-game option I could try to maneuver towards if I fall behind on creatures. My opponent probably plays TNN, and after cutting plague engineers, I need to counter it with pyroblast or pressure with two knights to go over it. The fourth dark confidant found its place in the sideboard mainly for this match. Deathrite and W6 should be really good, while Thalia could be cut if I decide I want 1-2 more force of vigors for leylines and other sideboard tech on his side.

White Eldrazi: -1 force of vigor, -1 once upon a time, -1 chalice of the void, -1 mental misstep, -2 collector ouphe, -1 thalia, (7) +1 swords to plowshares, +1 abrupt decay, +1 knight of the reliquary, +1 scavenging ooze, +1 elvish reclaimer, +1 sylvan library, +1 dark confidant (7) (25 green in library)

This sideboarding looks strange, but I belie that after ouphe, chalice and misstep, the fourth thalia and the fourth force are the worst cards in the matchup.

Ravager Shops: -1 chalice of the void, -1 mental misstep, -3 thalia, -2 once upon a time (7) +1 swords to plowshares, +2 collector ouphe, +1 knight of the reliquary, +1 elvish reclaimer, +1 scavenging ooze, +1 dark confidant (7) (26 green in library)

The shops player may opt to play Golos stax or something similar. Even though games change, I believe sideboarding should be the same: I have enough removal to be the control, and I will cut 3 or 4 thalia, since it slows down all the removal spells.

HollowVine: -2 collector ouphe, -3 abrupt decay, -1 mental misstep, -1 chalice of the void, -1 Karakas (8) +1 swords to plowshares, +1 scavenging ooze, +1 elvish reclaimer, +1 knight of the reliquary, +2 surgical extraction, +1 sylvan library, +1 grafdiggers cage (8) (23 green in library)

The plan here is really simple: Kill the first few creatures with spells, stonewall with Kotr for a turn and land tabernacle. W6 gets tabernacle back if he wastes it and tries for a comeback. Im not interested in paying an extra red to pyroblast his counterspells: There’s no time, and he will run out of counterspells quickly.

PO Storm: -4 deathrite, -2 wrenn and six, -1 Karakas, -1 Savannah, -1 Tabernacle (9) +2 collector ouphe, +3 pyroblast, +1 sylvan library, +1 swords to plowshares, +1 abrupt decay, +1 grafdiggers cage (9) (22 green in library, minimum)

The single grafdiggers cage made its way into the library because it answers tinker perfectly (I hadn’t considered that it stops Bolas’ citadel).

PO Mentor: -3 deathrite, -1 dark confidant, -4 wrenn and six, -1 Karakas, -1 Savannah (10) +2 collector ouphe, +3 pyroblast, +1 sylvan library, +knight of the reliquary, +1 swords to plowshares, +1 abrupt decay, +1 grafdiggers cage (9) (22 green in library, minimum)

I will try to find out if he plays back to basics. If he does, I will keep in 3 deathrites and cut the tabernacle and one knight instead. Tabernacle isn’t a great answer to monastery mentor in this matchup, since he plays a bunch of basic lands.

Bomberman: -2 mox diamond, -4 wrenn and six, -2 swords to plowshares, -1 Karakas, -1 Savannah, -1 Tabernacle (11) +2 collector ouphe, +3 pyroblast, +1 sylvan library, +1 abrupt decay, +2 surgical extraction, +1 scavenging ooze, +1 dark confidant (10) (25 green in library)

I will be on the lookout for tinker in his main or side and side in cage and plows if I see it. All my hate hits bomberman hard, so this match should be one of my easiest, as long as he aims for the salvagers kill.

Breach: -2 mox diamond, -4 wrenn and six, -4 force of vigor, -1 swords to plowshares, -1 Karakas, -1 Tabernacle (13) +2 collector ouphe, +3 pyroblast, +1 sylvan library, +1 abrupt decay, +2 surgical extraction, +1 scavenging ooze, +1 dark confidant, +1 grafdiggers cage, +1 knight of the reliquary (13)

I’ve never played against breach before, but it seems as though it needs a few turns to set up while it plays control. So I can ease a bit on the fast mana. W6 looks lackluster, but as far as I can discern, he cannot win through thalia, ouphe or cage. At the meantime, deathrite and ooze snack at his graveyard. Surgical should probably be aimed at ancestral or bolt in the midgame or black lotus or lions eye diamond if he is about to go off. I may be wrong here, but it seems like I should not aim at his combo pieces directly (breach, brain freeze or sprite dragon), since I will win the game if I can prevent his deck from functioning and lose the game if I spend too much resources trying to survive. Still: Pyroblasts, abrupt decays and the last remaining plow can easily be aimed at a sprite dragon.

posted in Hate Bears read more

@griselbrother Thanks for the feedback!

There isn't little mana in the deck. I haven't seen other knight builds in a long time, but I guess they play fewer moxen than me if they play 19 lands. Where should I go to look at recent lists? I have been building these kinds of decks for many years now, and this one has been tested quite a bit (of course, only by me). In most matchups I side out 1-2 mana sources: I side out a mox whenever deathrite shaman is a fine turn one play and speed is less important (I do this against xerox decks, but not against shops, for instance), or 1-2 lands if I really need 2 mana turn one, but am not concerned about mana disruption from the opponent. The maindeck manabase is built both for speed and consistency (and once upon a time helps). At the moment I wouldn't consider adding land.

I have added and removed a single mox diamond to my builds a bunch of times: The diamond usually ends up being too cute. But in this particular build, the two of them have been gold: My mana requirements are quite steep, and the synergy with W6 is very strong. I will look at the possibility of shaving a diamond when I side out W6, if I think dropping to 6x turn one accelerators is ok.

And: Nothing wrong with elvish spirit guide. I played it over mox diamond a year ago. In this build, mox diamond performs way better. Of course, powering out collector ouphe with diamond seems completely silly, but if the opponent needs to get rid of it to advance his gameplan, im more than happy.

posted in Hate Bears read more

Thanks for chiming in old friend!

Mox diamond can of course be a liability. It has performed very well though, probably because it plays well with all the cards in the deck that provide actual or virtual card advantage. Ouphe is straight up bad against several expected matches. I recently included mox ruby and moved one ouphe to the sideboard, mostly because ouphe has so high variance and secondly because Im at a point now where I have more artifact mana than half the field. When ouphe is good, I dont care that it shuts off my moxen, because it hurts my opponent so much more.

Deafening silence should be good! Since its only a one-off in the board (and cant be found with once upon a time), I have only played it a few times. I intend to side it in in all blue matches except oath, and expect it to slow the game down to where all my cards are business and a good deal of the opponents cards are air and I win. 🙂

Allosaurus Shepherd is interesting. I will consider it. The most typical play pattern against PO and UR delver (which are the match-ups I have played the most) is that I play a two-drop turn one, which gets countered. Turn two I play a second two drop, and if it doesn't get answered straight away I have a good chance of winning. Shepherd is interesting, because I can reproduce the same pattern without having to play so many moxen. Of course, I dont draw out force of wills when I play it, so non-green cards should be few and far between (Thalia always makes it, but maybe thats it). I dont think I have the time to test it for this summer, because it means reconfiguring the manabase (taking out moxen) to make room for it, and that requires quite a bit of testing.

The deck feels almost ready. I have to figure out what to do to increase my green count by 1-2 cards post sideboard in matchups where I want to keep all four force of vigors. Im debating playing a sylvan library in the main over the third confidant (I dont like it, but may do it. Sylvan in the main was good for me last year). The other consideration is to drop plague engineer in the side for a green card that gives board control or card advantage. Im considering the fourth knight, second ooze or second sylvan library. Suggestions are well received.

Nothing in the sideboard is sacred by the way. Particularly, non-green cards could be replaced.

posted in Hate Bears read more

Update on the list above

Expected meta is still: Oath, 2x UR Arcanist, Jeskai Arcanist, Bug Delver, White Eldrazi, Ravager Shops, HollowVine, PO Storm, PO Mentor, Bomberman and 2x blue nonsense

3 windswept heath
3 verdant catacombs
2 savannah
1 taiga
1 bayou
1 scrubland
4 wasteland
1 strip mine
1 karakas
1 the tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 black lotus
1 mox emerald
1 mox pearl
1 mox jet
1 mox ruby
2 mox diamond
1 chalice of the void
4 wrenn and six
2 swords to plowshares
1 mental misstep
3 abrupt decay
4 once upon a time
4 force of vigor
4 deathrite shaman
4 thalia, guardian of thraben
2 collector ouphe
3 dark confidant
3 knight of the reliquary
Sideboard:
1 swords to plowshares (Comes in in 6 matchups)
2 surgical extraction (Comes in in 6 matchups)
2 pyroblast (Comes in in 7 matchups)
1 abrupt decay (Comes in in 8 matchups)
1 deafening silence (Comes in in 5 matchups)
1 sylvan library (Comes in in 7 matchups)
2 containment priest (Comes in in 1 matchup, assuming no dredge)
2 collector ouphe (Comes in in 4 matchups)
1 elvish reclaimer (Comes in in 6 matchups)
1 scavenging ooze (Comes in in 7 matchups)
1 plague engineer (Comes in in 5 matchups)

Maindeck changes after testing a fair bit against PO Storm and UR Delver, a little bit against other match-ups and thinking a fair bit: -1 collector ouphe, +1 mox ruby. I prefer having the seventh piece of zero-mana acceleration over the narrow hate card. I will consider taking out the ruby in some match-ups, where I would side out ouphe anyways. I think my PO match-up (where ouphe shines the most) is good. This brings my maindeck green-count to 24, which is still ok.

The sideboard has gone through several changes:
-I have tried 2 veil of summer, and found them to be a bad fit in the deck. I will often tap out to play my threats as early as possible, so keeping up green to protect them is not something I want to work too hard to accomplish. Pyroblast is untried still. It can be cast at sorcery speed, which I think is important. It also deals with planeswalkers.
-Against oath and PO, I will side out deathrite shamans and keep knight of the reliquary in, to have a real clock. That means Leovold had to go, because I have too few sources of blue once I side out deathrites.
-I have softened up and widened the dredge hate: Only 2 containment priest, 2 surgical extraction, 1 elvish reclaimer (for the single maindeck tabernacle) and a bonus scavenging ooze that is mainly there for bug and xerox decks, but can do work if the game against dredge goes long. These other cards have applications against a wider field and I dont think I have to rely on containment priest against oath: I just blow up the oath.
-There is still a plague engineer in the side: We have one elf-player that has been on shops the last few years. If he decides to go back to elves, that is a far worse match-up for me. I am also weary of true-name nemesis out of bug. But I consider dropping the last engineer.

In several match-ups where I intend to play force of vigor, I currently drop to 21-22 green cards. That is uncomfortable, and Im looking for moves to change it.

Updated sideboard plan:

Oath: -2 collector ouphe, -2 dark confidant, -3 deathrite shaman, -1 savannah, -1 tabernacle, -1 chalice (10) +2 containment priest, +2 surgical extraction, +1 abrupt decay, +2 pyroblast, +1 sylvan library, +1 swords to plowshares, +1 elvish reclaimer (10) (22 green in library, minimum)

UR Arcanist (brings in blood moon): -2 collector ouphe, -1 Karakas, -1 force of vigor, -4 once upon a time, -1 mox ruby, -1 swords to plowshares (10) +1 abrupt decay, +2 pyroblast, +1 sylvan library, +1 plague engineer, +1 elvish reclaimer, +1 scavenging ooze, +2 surgical extraction, +1 deafening silence (10) (21 green in library, minimum)

Jeskai Arcanist: -4 force of vigor, -4 once upon a time, -2 collector ouphe, -1 mox ruby (11) +1 abrupt decay, +2 pyroblast, +1 sylvan library, +1 deafening silence, +1 plague engineer, +2 surgical extraction, +1 scavenging ooze, +1 elvish reclaimer, +1 swords to plowshares (10)

Bug Delver: -4 force of vigor, -4 once upon a time, -2 collector ouphe (10) +1 abrupt decay, +2 pyroblast, +1 swords to plowshares, +1 sylvan library, +1 plague engineer, +1 scavenging ooze, +1 elvish reclaimer, +2 surgical extraction (10) Note: Not sure if I can take out force of vigor.

White Eldrazi: -1 chalice of the void, -1 mental misstep, -2 collector ouphe, -2 thalia (6) +1 swords to plowshares, +1 abrupt decay, +1 plague engineer, +1 scavenging ooze, +1 elvish reclaimer, +1 sylvan library (6) (26 green in library) Note: He may not bring in leylines. I should consider shaving force of vigors.

Ravager Shops: -1 chalice of the void, -1 mental misstep, -3 thalia, -1 abrupt decay (6) +1 swords to plowshares, +2 collector ouphe, +1 plague engineer, +1 elvish reclaimer, +1 scavenging ooze (6) (27 green in library)

HollowVine: -2 collector ouphe, -3 abrupt decay, -1 mental misstep, -1 chalice of the void, -1 savannah (8) +2 containment priest, +1 swords to plowshares, +1 scavenging ooze, +1 elvish reclaimer, +1 plague engineer, +2 surgical extraction (8) (21 green in library, below minimum)

PO Storm: -4 deathrite, -1 wrenn and six, -1 Karakas, -1 Savannah, -1 Tabernacle (8) +2 collector ouphe, +1 deafening silence, +2 pyroblast, +1 sylvan library, +1 swords to plowshares, +1 abrupt decay (8) (23 green in library)

PO Mentor: -4 deathrite, -3 wrenn and six, -1 Karakas, -1 Savannah (9) +2 collector ouphe, +1 deafening silence, +2 pyroblast, +1 sylvan library, +1 elvish reclaimer, +1 swords to plowshares, +1 abrupt decay (9) (21 green in library, below minimum)

Bomberman: -1 deathrite, -4 wrenn and six, -2 swords to plowshares, -1 Karakas, -1 Taiga, -1 Tabernacle (10) +2 collector ouphe, +1 deafening silence, +2 pyroblast, +1 sylvan library, +1 abrupt decay, +2 surgical extraction, +1 scavenging ooze (10) (24 green in library)

posted in Hate Bears read more

Hi guys!

I realize this thread is completely stale. Ill be happy to get feedback and this is a good place for organizing my thoughts in any case. A year ago, I took my GRWB hate-bear list to Hulen Open. It performed very well and I look to improve on the list for this years tournament.

Expected meta: Oath, 2x UR Arcanist, Jeskai Arcanist, Bug Delver, White Eldrazi, Ravager Shops, HollowVine, PO Storm, PO Mentor, Bomberman and 2x blue nonsense

My list still intends to beat PO and shops. I consider PO to be the top deck in our meta and this has a very favourable match-up against it:

3 windswept heath
3 verdant catacombs
2 savannah
1 taiga
1 bayou
1 scrubland
4 wasteland
1 strip mine
1 karakas
1 the tabernacle at Pendrell Vale

1 black lotus
1 mox emerald
1 mox pearl
1 mox jet
2 mox diamond

1 chalice of the void
4 wrenn and six

2 swords to plowshares
1 mental misstep
3 abrupt decay
4 once upon a time
4 force of vigor

4 deathrite shaman
4 thalia, guardian of thraben
3 collector ouphe
3 dark confidant
3 knight of the reliquary

Sideboard:
1 the tabernacle at pendrell vale
1 deafening silence
1 swords to plowshares
2 veil of summer
1 abrupt decay
1 sylvan library
4 containment priest
1 collector ouphe
2 plague engineer
1 leovold, emissary of trest

The maindeck runs fairly smoothly. Im happy with the double mox diamond, since coloured mana requirements are pretty steep. 3 abrupt decay in the main is an attempt to shore up the arcanist match-up, which I believe to be the least favourable in the meta. I also appreciate that it can kill mana when appropriate and that it brings my green-count in the main to 25, which is comfortable with 4 force of vigor.

Sideboarding is quite tricky. Whenever I anticipate taking out force of vigor, weaker maindeck cards, such as once upon a time, should go with it. This is my current plan:

Oath: -3 collector ouphe, -3 dark confidant, -3 deathrite shaman, -1 tabernacle (10) +4 containment priest, +1 abrupt decay, +2 veil of summer, +1 sylvan library, +1 swords to plowshares (9)

UR Arcanist (brings in blood moon): -3 collector ouphe, -1 knight of the reliquary, -1 Karakas (5) +1 leovold, +1 abrupt decay, +2 veil of summer, +1 sylvan library, +2 plague engineer (7)

Jeskai Arcanist: -4 force of vigor, -4 once upon a time, -3 collector ouphe (11) +1 leovold, +1 abrupt decay, +2 veil of summer, +1 swords to plowshares, +1 sylvan library, +1 deafening silence, +2 plague engineer (9)

Bug Delver: -4 force of vigor, -4 once upon a time, -3 collector ouphe (11) +1 leovold, +1 abrupt decay, +2 veil of summer, +1 swords to plowshares, +1 sylvan library, +2 plague engineer (8) Note: Not sure if I can take out force of vigor. Lacking bombs here. Choke could be good.

White Eldrazi: -1 chalice of the void, -1 mental misstep, -3 collector ouphe, -1 thalia (6) +1 swords to plowshares, +1 abrupt decay, +2 plague engineer (5)

Ravager Shops: -1 chalice of the void, -1 mental misstep, -2 thalia (4) +1 swords to plowshares, +1 abrupt decay, +1 collector ouphe, +2 plague engineer (5) Note: The fourth knight would be welcome here, over a plague engineer, for instance.

HollowVine: -3 collector ouphe, -3 abrupt decay, -1 mental misstep, -1 chalice of the void (8) +1 Tabernacle, +4 containment priest, +1 swords to plowshares, +1 plague engineer, +1 leovold (7) Note: Takes my green count to 20, which is problematic.

PO Storm: -3 knight, -2 wrenn and six, -1 Karakas, -1 Savannah (7) +1 collector ouphe, +1 leovold, +1 deafening silence, +2 veil of summer, +1 sylvan library (7)

PO Mentor: -3 knight, -2 wrenn and six, -1 Karakas, -1 Savannah (7) +1 collector ouphe, +1 leovold, +1 deafening silence, +2 veil of summer, +1 sylvan library (7)

Bomberman: -3 knight, -2 wrenn and six, -1 Karakas, -1 Savannah (7) +1 collector ouphe, +1 leovold, +1 deafening silence, +2 veil of summer, +1 sylvan library (7)

A few notes:
-Sylvan library looks like it might belong in the maindeck as a one-of.
-Plague engineer looks like it is not pulling enough weight.
-I would like access to the fourth KotR in the side, against all the creature decks and oath.
-The second tabernacle in the side looks like its not worth it. If I gamble on not playing against actual dredge, I could play another piece that is decent against HollowVine that can also come in in other matches. Surgical extraction comes to mind.
-Similarly, containment priest is chosen as oath hate because it is among the best tools I have access to in case dredge shows up. If there is no dredge, I could consider controlling oath by blowing up oath and lands. A combination of 8 pieces of enchantment destruction and 2 surgical extraction to target the first destroyed oath could be plan a against oath. Plan B is to untap with KotR.

posted in Hate Bears read more

Comments on some of the card choices in the GWRB list above:

4 Force of vigor main: I went from 3 to 4 maindeck when I saw how good they are in the deck and after realizing they would be quite relevant in the field. Of the 12 other decks in the meta, they are only weak game 1 against dreadhorde arcanist and BUG fish. The UR arcanist deck I lost to in the final sides in blood moons, so I need to keep all 4 forces in against it. Playing the full playset means putting a premium on green cards in the deck, especially since collector ouphes come out in several match-ups.

4 collector ouphes main: As I mentioned before, I built the deck to beat ravager shops and PO. Against the field I met, 4 ouphe is probably not justified. It is a liability against oath of druids and weak against the "fair" decks. For green-based hate decks in general, I would think they are quite important, since it gives these decks a disruptive 2-drop beater on a power level close to that of Thalia, that pitches to force of vigor.

4 wrenn and six main: Speaking of two-drops that pitch to force of vigor, this card was pretty amazing. Most of the time, it was a functional ramunap excavator that was more resilient to removal. But the option of pinging any target once a round is very relevant. Against oath, it is importantly not a creature, which can build my manabase and/or weaken theirs whilst not activating oath. It can also pluck off spirit tokens after I have wasted their orchard. In the finals, I attacked Thalia into arcanist, bounced Thalia with Karakas after first-strike damage, then played wrenn and six to finish the arcanist off. I shaved a copy once, but never saw the need to cut any more of them. They were well worth the red splash.

4 knights of the reliquary main: This card is arguably too slow for vintage. If it gets to untap, however, it dominates the board. I think it is finally a good vintage card, because force of vigor slows games down to where it becomes effective. I am happy I played four. In the meta this Saturday, I would only side them out/shave copies against grixis control, PO and bomberman.

1 engineered plague main: When looking over sideboard plans against the expected field, I noticed that the engineered plague in the sideboard would come in against about half the field. Against other decks, it has marginal uses that make it decent to use game 1, such as naming "spirit" against oath or "monk" against PO. I was happy about running one in this tourney and will consider doing it again.

2 containment priest main: These are here because I expected 2-3 oath decks and one dredge deck in the meta. On the other hand, I had a hard time finding additional creatures to play. I considered green two-drops like Teeg, Scavenging Ooze and Pridemage and even going to 3 mana for big Thalia or Tireless Tracker. Ultimately, I decided to shy away from these weaker cards and play containment priests, since they are at least situationally powerful. Any ideas here are more than welcome.

Strong sideboard cards: 2 containment priest, 2 grafdiggers cage, 1 tabernacle, 2 stony silence.

Sideboard cards I am happy I ran, even though they could be something else: 1 bojuka bog (no dredge), 1 ghost quarter, 2 lightning bolt, 1 tireless tracker.

Sideborad cards I should not have played: 1 forest, 1 dovin, 1 choke. Choke is win-more with the waste package and wrenn and six. Dovin came in against blue decks, but would have been much stronger as a second sylvan library: Sylvan is cheaper, has a more powerful effect in these match-ups and pitches to force of vigor. The forest was me panicking five minutes before the tourney, when I heard one of the arcanist decks played blood moon in the side. The deck cannot realistically operate against a blood moon anyway, so any green card to pitch to force of vigor would be more effective than the stupid forest. In game two in the final, I had an open fetchland when he played moon turn one. I debated what to do, but went for the basic forest. By the time I had drawn a green card to pitch to force of vigor, he was able to force of will. Meanwhile, the basic forest did nothing.

I will happily respond to questions and/or criticism!