@vaughnbros I don't think that jamming 4 of these is going to be optimal and I don't think this card creates any sort of new type of dredge deck in vintage, so I am trying to see what versions this fits in and how/if one should change card choices because it is in the deck. I appreciate your attitude about what cards can be cut and what can't as it is a good reminder that we shouldn't get married to cards especially in an archetype like this.
In terms of my dredger count I am in the 10-12 range, if you assume that none of the lands are salvages then yes that is low. Also since bazaar is required then I think there is a strong case that powder is as well. Also aren't those cards commonly played because they are the best options, so why would you play anything else? What else would you play in those slots to make the deck function? Yes in a broad sense there are not many cards that are "required." I don't think that is the direction I meant for this to go as what cards are required in a broad sense is not what this thread is about. i want to know what we need to make hulk work outside of fatestitcher dredge. You need enough lands and creatures to be able to reliably cast it, is the number of creatures like 23-25 and then how many lands, 14ish? Does this also mean we play less amalgams because the trigger is required? Should we play urborg somewhere in the 75?
@vaughnbros If Sun Titan could have been played why wasn't it? In terms of 20+ flex slots, 4 Therapy, 4 bridge, 8-10 dredge creatures, 4 powder, 12-14 lands (assuming this is enough to help reliably cast hulk), 2 dread return, 4 narco, 10-12 graveyard creatures, some combination of ghasts, ichorid and/or amalgam, 1-2 dread return targets other than hulk, even conservatively that leaves maybe 12-14 flex slots so my original post was off. Can you show me a list that has 20+ maindeck flex slots though? And yes with 12-14 slots you can find room, but is it better than what you are already doing with those slots, like unmask, leyline or pitch counters? If we look at the top decks, shops, xerox, outcome and dredge, what matchup do we want hulk in? When I think about that question it leads me to ask another question, does hulk make non fatestitcher versions faster? If the answer is yes then that helps against outcome and the mirror in game 1. I think in fatestitcher dredge this makes a lot of sense as a maindeck and it could easily replace force of will in other versions, as you can play 4 trap and 4 misstep along with with 4 of this guy, but can we play enough lands to make that work? What is the right land count? I also think hulk makes us lean towards playing more anti hate evoke creatures in the sb.
@blindtherapy Makes sense. Then is it playable in other versions of dredge besides replacing Sun Titan in fatestitcher dredge? Is it a maindeck card in those decks? And if it is, what do you cut? In most lists there are 8-10 slots that are flexible and I think finding room for two is doable, but 4 sounds extremely difficult. Asking because I can't think of what that would be and looking for input from people who are smarter than me.
I think the question is, is this better than gurmag angler out of the sideboard, the only time I could see it making much of a difference in game one is that you can cast it if you are playing against someone that has main deck hate and it is a black creature. Harder to cast, but you get to keep the cards in your graveyard and get value from the ETB trigger, getting bounced by Jace favors hulk as well and you also get another point of power and toughness. I am imagining this more in sideboard games where you can cast it to get back cabal pit and kill containment priest or get back a bazaar obviously.