Hey thanks for posting this - this was my appearance on David's excellent podcast, Geeks Guide to the Galaxy. Hopefully it reached a wider Magic audience or some number of lapsed players who might be tempted back to the game. Certainly been a few pick up their cards again since reading my book, which is nice to hear.

Thanks for the support, glad you enjoyed this.

@Griselbrother While the card doesn't directly punish planeswalker activations (wish it did), it still cramps them somewhat in so much as you can redirect the damage from Harsh Mentor, if say the opponent fetches with a Walker in play. I suspect that will catch a few people out at first.

It's really interesting to me how different some of these look to the green decks that were stomping me back in the day... perhaps the version with the Howling Mine/Relic Barrier engine looks most familiar to me...

Scavenger Folk was definitely popular - but I also remember green decks playing stuff like Tracker - with Aspect of Wolf for good measure... good times.

Is there a green ramp strategy viable in old school? Again, just from memory, but I definitely remember getting crushed my mono green decks using Ley Druid as a pseudo mana elf to help dump out quick Craw Giants/Forces of Nature....

Halcyon days! Thanks for the content Ben! :)

Really enjoyable read Steve and I agree with most of your assertions. I'm not quite sure I agree with your almost final point though that Vintage should change slowly. I think many long-time Vintage players are certainly suffering from an almost moribund format becoming a living one again thanks to MTGO - but I'm not really sure, that's who should be catered to if the format is to grow. ie: Vintage's best hope to attract new players is via Magic Online, Online players notice formats getting stale far quicker due to the high turnover of play, so to keep those new players in the format we/the dci should be thinking about meeting their expectations. That might mean more regular changes in what constitutes the format.

That said, I would hope first and foremost for change via unrestrictions, new printings and perhaps better errata management (eg restoring something like Transmute Artefact which might boost an alternative blue strategy). I personally enjoy the fact that the format is less about the restricted cards than ever before - and also don't believe that less variance in the power level of cards leads to lower skill. I think many sub-optimal plays are rescued in Vintage by drawing into broken one-ofs; ripping Time Walk or Ancestral for the win for example. Try piloting control in Standard right now for an idea of how skill-testing a low-powered, homogeneous format can be....

If we are talking restrictions though then I do agree with the above posters, that there might at least be a sober discussion to be had about restricting Workshop whilst also unrestricting Chalice and/or Golem. I think Thalia decks have shown the viability of aggro-prison strategies in the format without the namesake from Shops decks, such that Workshop's holy cow status as 'keeping the format in check' no longer stands. I also wonder if fans of playing interesting, fun artefacts might not be better served by Workshop being restricted - for much the same reason Birthing Pod was in Modern. It simply puts too much of a brake on what R&D can print going forward.

Just a couple of thoughts anyway. Before the printing of Ballista, I might have said it was time for Mentor to go. But it's good to see the emergence of a new card that could perhaps reign in a card that has otherwise superceded all alternative win conditions for gush decks. I'm in favour of Gush sticking around - I think over all its impact on the format is favourable. But I would say the last six months has felt very stale in Vintage to me and that, as an online player, I've been seeking my kicks elsewhere. That's been a revelation to me personally - I'm playing Standard now for the first time since Tempest block and always draft the new sets, plus the various cubes - and I greatly enjoy being involved in Magic more broadly. But I do also think that this is emblematic of why Vintage needs to get to grips with being a living format, and one which lives mostly online, where there is plenty of competition for players' attention. Retreating into the lofty Vintage mindset of yore and spurning the many possible new players online would at this point be disastrous for the format. The only problem is, that I do not believe, that even if we as a Vintage player base are willing to move with the times, that Wizards is equipped to do so, too. They simply don't have the staff resources to keep a close eye on the format, to be nimble or rigorous with restrictions, to free cards from stifling errata etc....it is perhaps only because of this - because of the fear they'll cock up the format - that I am sometimes grateful Vintage is left to evolve slowly.....

Cheers for a thought-provoking read as always Stephen. Sorry you didn't make it into the VSL this season, at the very least to provide historical perspectives and reasoned arguments when the sometimes hysterical commentary flares up.

(Edited to correct the god awful predictive text function on my shite mobile phone)

@wappla Thanks for the awesome write up Wappla, look forward to trying your latest suggestions. I think the major improvement is the cutting of Temple from the Mana base - makes the deck far more consistent. Bravo for that innovation.

Been mostly playing other formats the past few months but look forward to playing this going forward in Vintage. And trying out stuff like Prelate, Ballista and anything else not mentioned above.

So to those who have had a chance to play with the card - what do you think will be the knock-on effects on the meta?

Is this going to make x/1 creatures a thing of the past? Where does that leave Thalia decks? Can Young Pyro join Bob on the Vintage scrapheap?

Or, have you guys found you don't want to waste a ballista early - and instead wait on it for a big/comboey finish?

@wappla Nice build as always Wappla. I've been playing Smuggler's Copter too in the deck and managed to cash a Daily with it. I think it's probably the Vintage deck that most benefits from the effect and I think does improve the (non-Null Rod) Shops match-up. I like your super aggressive approach - will have to give it a try!

Would you mind elaborating a bit on why you find Thought-Knot bad? Is it due to the contortions required from the mana base? Do you think the deck can be disruptive enough without it? (Is that essentially what Thalia 2.0 now allows the deck?

EDIT: Just reading the responses above. :)

Always happy to see no changes rather than the wrong changes, but I'm not really in love with Vintage at the moment.

Maybe Chalice coming off would help a mana drain deck rise from the ashes (a la Blue Moon) and help nip the premature talk of a Paradoxical Outcome restriction in the bud?

Yeah it's very hard to understand how they missed this - have they actually come out and said whether they were aware of the interaction in testing or not? Because given the wording of the white guy, it does look like it was explicitly designed to allow blinking of planes walkers.

This certainly isn't going to help the reputation of the current standard format. Which is certainly what they're trying to grow/salvage, not Modern. Still, could be fun to play 'twin' in one format at least....

Edit: Huge price spike for Saheeli Rain of course..... joy :/

Whatever happens to this card in future, the cast was a really fun way to reveal it and I thought a lot of the discussion was great - something we're used to from your guys' set reviews.

I share @ajfirecracker's concern that summoning sickness felt like it was often glossed over. Nonetheless, I'm more optimistic than him that the card could find a place in eternal Magic, perhaps Vintage.

One scenario you guys didn't mention might be some sort of Stoneforge deck that takes advantage of the evasion to carry equipment. And could even recur the Thopter with Sword of Light and Shadow. This probably sounds more viable in Legacy, though we'very seen Stoneforge pop up in Vintage from time to time.

Either way, I'm glad WOTC recognised all your hard work with a fun card to spoil that provided plenty of discussion. Good stuff!