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Would you consider making it a cavern deck? I also think that with combo decks, it is often better to run something like thoughtseize over force of will.

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@thewhitedragon69 Umm. . .Zidra has an activated ability. I think he means 1 Zidra in Companion Zone and 3 in the main. I don't know what the other 4 he was talking about were.

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@aelien Why is that? I find pre-game mechanics to be almost entirely unexplored. I think Vintage NEEDS more things like this to level the playing field actually. I love that this card says cmc 2 or less. This rules out Oko and Dack and Teferi from being included in a deck. I LOOOVE that restriction.

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Most of the time we are facing BUGr or UGR and not strictly BUG, and each of these decks have access to Lightning Bolt. I have tried Mirran Crusader, and while it's occasionally good, I don't think it has enough firepower across all the xerox variants out there to have staying power. I hope that helps clarify my thoughts here.

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@thewhitedragon69 said in [C20] Slippery Bogbender:

For the mana, I think Thrun is just better. 4/4 for 4, hexproof, regen, and can't get countered (just like cavern ability grants). Not human, but GG isn't hard to get and you are looking for the bonus off cavern-naming-human which Thrun has naturally anyway. The only plus to this, I think, is flash...but for being chumpable by a mox-turned-elk, this card seems worse than Thrun - even in humans.

The idea is to give hexproof to your real bomb like knight or kambal. Thrun is just a 4/4 that gets chumped. That is why it sucks in my opinion.

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No one is actually saying where I could REALLY see this seeing play: a hatebear deck. Just keep it to 2-drops only. Yeah boooyyyyyy!

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@BlindTherapy From experience, The "turn your guy into a 3/3" ability of Oko is the killer for creature-based cavern decks. Like a Knight of the Reliquary getting "Elked" is just so painful. Sylvan Safekeeper only stops the ability ONE time. It can also easily be Wren & 6ed. That's the reason I don't love Mother of Runes either.

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So, I've been looking for a card to counter Oko for a while now that can be played in a Cavern human list. Could this be that card? It's a bit high on the curve, but I was wondering what people thought.

https://www.mtgsalvation.com/cards/commander-2020/38015-slippery-bogbonder

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What is Memory's Journey for in these lists?

Also, Mind Funeral WTF?

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what do these decks actually LOOK like at this point?