@ajfirecracker So here's a list I've been tinkering with:
// V_1_rainbow dredge
// 60 Maindeck
// 4 Artifact
1 Mox Diamond
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Sapphire
// 23 Creature
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
1 Flame-Kin Zealot
1 Sun Titan
// 4 Enchantment
4 Bridge from Below
// 8 Instant
4 Force of Vigor
4 Force of Will
// 9 Land
4 Bazaar of Baghdad
2 Mana Confluence
1 Dakmor Salvage
2 Gemstone Mine
// 12 Sorcery
2 Cabal Therapy
3 Life from the Loam
3 Dread Return
// 2 Sideboard
// 2 Instant
SB: 2 Darkblast
I don't have a sb yet. I discovered faithess looting is just a bad bazaar effect for 1 mana. Breakthrough, on the other hand, is absurd. Dredge x4 + discard your hand for 1 mana is bonkers. I've turn 2ed very consistently with this, and often because the second land I play casts breakthrough. You are able to flip 20+ cards off breakthrough fairly regularly. If you land a "blue mox" effect on turn 1 with a bazaar, you can cast breakthrough and chain off of therapies and returns into titan and mill your whole deck turn 1 for a zealot win...all while still having 4x FoV and FoW main deck.
I think breakthrough is the speed card that may have been missing to make "pitch" dredge explosively fast. The one downside I see is that you can't play breakthrough and keep up FoW + blue card unless you cast breakthrough off of a lotus. But I don't know if that's a back breaker. You can still proactively Vigor, you just have to rely more on therapy to clear the way...or you hold breakthrough and use it as the FoW fodder if you expect rav trap/extraction to be cast. Pact of Negation or unmask may work as replacements for FoW.
This deck isn't 100% tuned, but it is crazy fast and consistent and still has the 8x pitch spells to ram through hate. Let me know what anyone thinks.
One card I always wondered about in vintage dredge is faithless looting. Nobody plays it, and I think the color has something to do with that, but draw 2, discard 2 for one mana (and then having flashback) seems like it would be great for what the deck tries to do - dredge. I could also see a legacy version throwback - breakthrough. Could there be some sort of rainbow colored dredge that could run lootings and breakthrough to some degenerate effect? Bazaar is still bazaar, but having a bunch of spells that mimic the effect or have a draw 4 for 1 mana component seem really good. Breakthrough also pitches to FoW and FoN, so there's that, too.
So if you oath this up...can you just cast angel's grace and draw the heck out of your deck for the win? I dunno if this guy is any good in anything we currently have but that ability screams "abusable" to me. Good job WotC - deckbuilder challenge accepted!
Honestly, I think the presence of Narset as an auto 4-of in every blue deck makes this a very playable card. Draw spells are more broken, but when you can't draw more than one spell a turn, digging 7 deep for 2 cards for 4 mana is really the best thing you can do. FoF is the closest as a play-around to Narset, but you only dig 5 deep and often just get ONE of the best two spells in the top 5 if your opponent is at all competent in making piles. 4 mana is like a turn 2-3 play in vintage. If you could run 5 dig through times, you would. Actually...you might not because the delves cannibalize each other. This doesn't hinder multiples at all.
@joshuabrooks I dunno about how accurate that is. I own a shitload of cards...probably north of $50K worth. I don't play MtGO, even though I could buy my collection digitally 100x over plus all the cards I'm missing. But I waste enough of my life on the computer, so I'll pass on MtGO and deal in cardboard.
I know, cards are stupidly expensive. But let's say the cards magically reduced in price by 75% overnight. Why would you buy them (other than assuming it was a blip and they'd jump 150% back overnight)? You'd have nowhere to play them and the times you could use them you'd be paying big entry fees for low EV.
Nobody will host big events with huge prizes because they'd lose money as not many would show up. Most won't buy in because it's too expensive for the EV since there's not many sanctioned tourneys with any decent prize to play in. It's the chicken and the egg, except the chicken is cooked and the egg won't crack in this catch-22.
I think the real solution has nothing to do with proxies...and it may not even be a matter of the reserved list. Sure, it'd be great if power was cheaper to acquire, but there are plenty of people that could do it and don't, yet pay big for Modern and Legacy. The biggest deterrent I feel is prize support and frequency of high-profile events. If you could pick up a playset of goyfs, bobs, seizes, chalices, and other pricey cards to play a BG rock deck, or a set of blue duals, FoWs, and other junk for Legacy, you're not far away from chipping away at pieces of power.
But why buy Vintage cards? You can go to lots of Modern tourneys and some big Legacy tourneys to a lesser degree - but when are you ever going to use that Vintage deck? Once or twice a year at best? And for what - a $100 entry for a shot at winning an underground sea? Cmon.
Vintage is by far the least supported format with few "big" events and usually crappy prize support or something decent but for $100 entry. If proxies were allowed, people might get in more easily and try their luck...but nobody is going to invest all the way for a format you rarely get to play and for low EV in prizes. Us old folk who bought in early and are now near 40 are the bulk of the scene. We can't expect young players to come in if the opportunity to play often and for good prize support isn't there.
Nobody has a right to play or engage in any commercially supported (by WotC in this case) hobby for free. Vintage, Legacy, Draft or F1 racing ... they are all expensive hobbies from the point of view of different people.
While this is true in the reality of it all, I always personally hated this argument. It is elitist - which the world is, I understand - but also implies there is no interest in facing the best of the best in cardboard battle...just the best of the wealthy.
I'd agree that they shouldn't join for free, but there's a difference between paying $50 to play and $25K to play.
I agree with 10 proxy. I think 100% of Vintage should be proxy allowed, but not all Vintage be 100% proxy. I took the thread to mean all Vintage should allow some number of proxies (like 10-15). I think that helps reduce the barrier to entry. 100% proxy would be ugly.