@fsecco I've actually heard some voices say that Mentor would be one of the more reasonable Bans to 'hit' Miracles without destroying it like almost any other of the proposed Bans would (Can the deck survive without CounterTop or Terminus? Not really).
And I can somewhat understand their logic. Prior to the adoption of Mentor into the Miracles shell it actually had a far wider range of bad matchups. Chief among them being Eldrazi Stompy, though Death & Taxes was also performing better as was 12post. By taking away that tool from their arsenal it should theoretically make the metagame better able to self-correct in attacking Miracles.
Would it be enough to take it out of the top echelon of Legacy decks? Most certainly not. But I think it would actually be enough to bring it down from Tier 0 to Tier 1.
In a completely unrestricted format, everyone would play 4x maindeck Stony Silence.
And then everyone would be forced to play lands. I'm not sure what the above list is supposed to prove, that you can make a really quick deck that loses on the spot to a single Force of Will?
Looks pretty powerful in PO Storm, or potentially some kind of Colorless+Ux Metalworker deck. One of the things that you often run into with that deck is being hampered by the amount of colored Mana you can produce while having essentially unlimited Colorless/Off-Color (GW especially).
I agree that running this pushes you a bit more to a Rainbow Land manabse which works worse with Brainstorm and Sensei's Divining Top - but that can maybe be mitigated with just an additional copy or two of Preordain, possibly Candelabra if you can manage to incorporate Ancient Tombs into the manabase as well...
It's definitely something to think about. The card is at the very least interesting to theorize about.
I would say that it is very easy to fall into the trap of over-complicating and over-analyzing when it comes to discussions of the B&R. While I did enjoy that post by @Smmenen (and the podcast), I have to agree that I don't think looking at it as what exact meta-percentage the Engine-level archetype is encompassing is a good way of looking at it.
I'm in the camp of first perhaps Unrestricting a few things, but with that removed off of the table AND without re-evaluating the criteria for the B&R as it relates to Vintage which would make Probe and Misstep reasonable restrictions. The only card that truly does make sense is Mentor. As a win-condition it is incredibly compact, rewards you for playing cards that you already want to be playing instead of enforcing deckbuilding clunk, is extremely difficult to answer, and is unbelievably powerful while hitting every other check mark.
Perhaps I am just far more averse to restricting Engine cards in this format than I am in others since in stark comparison it often is the actual win-conditions of the decks that are the most problematic to deal with. The engines are all V12 monsters, but that's what makes Vintage well... Vintage.
Re:Ritual vs. PO
It's a complicated question and one that becomes more muddled as you add cards like the 1cmc tutors and 1cmc anti-hate to PO; since it opens you up to Mental Misstep a lot more, and as such nullifies one of the more strategic advantage of the deck. However, it's worth pointing out that Ritual-based Storm is significantly more hampered by Graveyard hate (specifically Tormod's or Leyline, though I suppose RiP also falls into this category) than PO. It relies on YawgWill and Dark Petition w/ Spell Mastery quite a bit. Given that graveyard hate will always be a thing in Vintage, and in rather large numbers - I don't feel that Ritual Storm actually manages to sneak in under the blanket of hate that PO faces.
Now, what are the advantages of it? Well no one is running maindeck Tormod's Crypt or Leyline. On the other hand, you also aren't as likely to just win the die roll and kill your opponent right then and there. In terms of the raw power, PO blows it out of the water.
I've been toying around with a few things. Mindbreaks in the side, Mindbreaks in the main. I quite like the Mindbreaks in general. Especially in the mirror where a single Force on the Draw is often just not enough to save you from the opponent doing silly degenerate things. I have yet to really settle on a sideboard configuration that I like, but I do enjoy how much room you actually have with this deck. Outside of the obligatory 4x Hurkyl's, 1x Blightsteel, and 2x Flusterstorm, the rest really feels quite transient. I think you likely want a total of 3-4 ways of removing troublesome hatepieces between the main and side as well. Currently I'm trying out Disenchants to bypass that prior mentioned Mental Misstep issue.
The one thing I am definitely sold on is the Torrential Gearhulk though. Card has been absolutely amazing. Between ease of hard-casting, pitching to Force, being able to get value even vs. Swords to Plowshares, and turning Tinker into a PO (after the first has been cast) - while actually being a pretty respectable body against the crap that White Eldrazi/Shops populate the board with, it has just been fantastic.
I would classify Leovold as certainly a playable for decks that have Green in them.
The effect is certainly interesting, but on a 3-drop and in the current metagame of Vintage? Not so much. There are just far better things you can be doing with 3-mana. I would probably play TNN or Leovold over Anticountersnek if I was looking for a 3-drop creature that isn't named Monastery Mentor.
@Hrishi Oh definitely. Though I feel certain comparisons can definitely be made. Storm is one of the best examples in where it went from a mechanic that rendered the spell essentially, uncounterable - to having everything from Thalia, to Chalice, to Flusterstorm, to Mindbreak Trap now restricting it's innate power as a mechanic. With the others it's a similar story. Enchantment Removal has become a lot better, non-Basic land hate has become better. The cards while powerful, can most certainly be answered.
It feels like with a lot of the cards, they aren't that far off from what Black Vise was and then became. An absolutely insane card for it's time, but one which power-creep and permutations in the format rendered not just no longer 'broken' - but not even worthy of consideration in a deck!
I couldn't be more in agreement that it's time something other than Gush get's a fair shot being off the Restricted list!
I mean to some degree it is understandable. People tend to remember broken things very well - and from the DCI's perspective, it's one thing to miss some broken interaction with a new card. It's a completely different matter to unban/restrict a formerly broken card and then if it breaks everything again, they end up looking like a putz.
Though I definitely agree. A lot of things on the list have been power-creeped over quite hard. Tinker, Necropotence, Bargain, Library, etc... It seems like a far more interesting way of shaking up the format than going down the dark road of banning even more 1-mana Blue cantrips. No matter how much I may detest Probe (and the entirety of Phyrexian Mana) - it's just not something that is ban worthy.