Just to be sure, if I cast this targeting Lavinia, my free spell will be countered before Lavinia dies, right?

@evouga said in [RNA] Electrodominance:

with decent-sized value of X puts them in a rather awkward spot, as they need to decide whether to counter the Electrodominance itself, the free followup spell, or whatever you try to cast after untapping on your turn.

They can just counter the spell, which prevents you from casting the free spell.

I'm kind of hoping this would be a set in each color, but besides the red one hitting for 3, I can't see what the other colors could do that would be balanced.

Just noticed this is a nonbo with Thalia. Your free spells will now cost 1 and won't be countered by Lavinia.

1 power and uncounterable isn't enough to make Detention Sphere playable. It really needed much more oomph, at least 2 power and some kind of evasion, and even then, a 3 mana sorcery removal isn't quite enough for vintage.

@aeonsovarius said in Single Card Discussion - Lavinia, Azorious Renegade:

@wagner said in Single Card Discussion - Lavinia, Azorious Renegade:

At a time where most sets don't even include a Vintage playable card, I'm just always excited to see a new card that co

No? I haven't been actually playing Vintage for too long, but there are a ton of new cards in Vintage for sure. I saw four Guilds of Ravnica cards at Eternal Weekend for example.

Remember what those were? I'm guessing Assassin's Trophy, what else?

@aelien

Of course, the but issue is that the P/T can't vary that much. If it costs 1, it's unlikely to have a clock that makes it matter. If it costs 2, it really can't go more than a 3/2 without warping other formats or the color pie, and anything costing 3 and more it's likely just too slow to be a reliable threat.

That's all to be taken into account in the design, and that's why I'd like to see a card design that is both balanced and powerful enough.

Taking your second idea, I would drop that on a 2/3 body for BG and I think it could fringe playable because of the difficult color combination.

@aelien said in Single Card Discussion - Lavinia, Azorious Renegade:

@griselbrother did you read my comment before? I gave a few examples how not to design hate cards and how to do it properly, that still allows for interesting choices.
Don't use a static "X can't be done" but instead use stuff like:
"1 whenever an opponent draws a card, other than the first card in their turn, they lose 2 life"
or
"2 Whenever an opponent plays an artifact spell they discard a card"
or
"3 This creature can't be countered, any player may pay (2) to ignore this effect until end of turn"

1. This seems just worse than Spirit of the Labyrinth, which is already not very playable.
2. Now that is super interesting, however discard and artifact hate don't go together well on the color pie. It would have to be a black-green creature. Unless you make the discard random, in that case red only could work.
3. Being uncounterable isn't enough by itself to be playable. Vexing Susher is uncounterable has been making all your spells uncounterable for 10 years and sees very little play. Making it counterable for a cost is much much worse than this.

I get what you're getting to, but giving the opponent a choice in what they can and can't do has pretty much never been a viable option and permanents that do that rarely see any play.

@khahan said in Single Card Discussion - Lavinia, Azorious Renegade:

Why not CiP triggers? Why not leaves play triggers that make exiling or killing the white creature a bad idea? Why not something like palace jailer that gives white some modicum of card advantage? Why not green, black or red?

Regarding the "leaves play triggers", it's likely because if the card isn't killed, it's just a bear which can usually be ignored and raced by control/combo decks. There is little incentive to actually kill it. If it does get killed, then the defensive players gets to choose when and can mitigate the effect.

For CiP trigger, it would need to be something strong enough to have an impact in Vintage while not breaking newer formats, and that's a thin line to navigate. Hate towards broken play is likely to have a smaller impact on other formats while being playable in Vintage.

Also, CiP effets are pretty much just a spell tacked on a creature, I find that less interesting design than a continuous or reusable effect, which is what permanents usually do.

As or card advantage, Dark Confidant is an amazing engine, and even then it's not played a lot. That shows the power level creatures must reach to be played in Vintage.

I'd also want to see suggestions of a fun hatebear that has Vintage potential.

I helped derail this too, so let's try to bring it back on track.

At a time where most sets don't even include a Vintage playable card, I'm just always excited to see a new card that could shake things up a bit, especially one that has an ability we've never seen before.

I don't think it will have a major impact on the meta, but it will get people trying new stuff, and that's awesome of itself.