Last saturday, a budget Eldrazi won the LCV tournament, with 28 participants:
Not a bad result for a budget deck. I have to say that his draws were insane for most of the tournament, I faced him in the Top-8. I got T1 lotus land mox painter preordain grindstone, only to face double dismember. In the second he had pithing, null rod, cavern for thought knot and then double wasteland. Pretty brutal for a bad hand as he said.
@nasfer I don't want to sound rude, but painter is not a "fast" deck. Albeit is combo, it takes 6 mana compared with the 4 mana of key+vault. Also the combo is stopped by creature removal, so it's worse on paper. And having to play 3 colors instead 2 (vault+key decks often are UB) can be a nuisance. So what does painter does better than vault decks? Synergy with painter, translated into REB and pyroblast (and sulfur elemental, if you ask me). So often I don't hurry into combo, play my trinkets, faydens, snapcasters and get into a nice position to activate grindstone. If my opponent is not prepared for the combo, I can win of nowhere. And if the opponent is too focused on stopping the combo, I can win slowly with critters, trying to maximize rebs.
Problems with paradoxical? Trinket mage + chalice in the side works wonderfully. Also I play sb trinisphere if I expect storm decks, and painters is not really annoyed with trinisphere in play. Not to speak about lots of natural counters against Paradoxical Outcome!
Against mud, it's always hard. There are lots of openers that no deck can safely overcome. Revoker is maybe the hardest card, followed by ballista. In my case I rely on magus to transform all its lands into mountains, the small creatures to match it's small creatures, I limit my misstep count and don't play fluster in the main. Post side I often play more sulfur elementals and try to have 1 elemental and 1 painter in play, killing revokers while being able to match most creatures (sulfur elemental gets to 4/1 with painter naming white, not a bad blocker if needed). Of course decks with lower creature ratio work worse against mud, but jvp with by force seem a good starting point.
Well, UR painters is not the same as URB painters, but I have been playing this for nearly a couple of years and works pretty well
The biggest difference is not the third color, but the amount of creatures. I rely on creatures, not only in painters, but also in magus (often better than painters) and others. Thus the caverns.
I played thirst some time ago, but I prefer fact or fiction. While 1 more mana is relevant, 11 artifacts is borderline imho and sometimes I found myself discarding 2 cards. With fact is quality or quantity, you choose. And you are safe from notion thiefs, leovold and spirit of the labirinth (yeah, I have faced it). I also tried paradoxical (I prefer fact) and have yet to try gifts, but as long as you play y.will, you can add noxious and snapcaster ftw. Btw, snapcaster is a house with rebs. JPV is nice and works better with sorceries, but with countermagic snapcaster shines. By force is working pretty fine, and since thorn is restricted, ingot makes little sense over other options.
Which are the main problems of my version? Delver has always been too quick, and I can't help it. If delver is on the rise, add Izzet Staticaster or Slice and dice (I love pyrokinesis, that's why I play it). Null rod/stony silence can be an issue, but with 14 creatures I can win without needing to tap an artifact. Oath is hard, one of my worst pairings. Cage is often not enough and its combo is faster. Besides Emrakul stops the combo unless you can nihil the grave in response. You need a creature to win, and can do that with 5 mana (2 for painter and 3 to activate grindstone) but if you get the grindstone grudged in response, you are having a bad time.
In your experience, which decks pose the biggest threat to your deck? That way we can search little changes to keep the identity of your deck, improving it in certain aspects.
Mana Infinito Store
C/Lepant 238-242 Local 10 (cross C/ Aragón)
Underground: Monumental (L2) & Sagrada Familia (L2) (L5)
Regristation starts at 10h (20.-€)
Organizes: Mana Infinito Store.
Prizes to be determined
No proxies allowed
The winner will have 1 bye for MKM vintage main event, one week after this tournament (for more information about this event, please go to this page)
Congrats to the brave Painter innovator who only played 2 Missteps (granted he's maining 4 blasts ).
I'm not fond of misstep at all. None of my decks have featured 4, 2 or 3 are the mean and as you say, playing blasts is less useful (and 2 snapcasters can recover them).
Besides, why should I want 4? To protect ancestral? I cannot fetch it, so in most games i don't see it. To protect grindstone or top? People rarely counter grindstone as it's a dead card itself, and while top is great, playing magus means i cannot fetch (removing all options to shuffle my deck).
Which cards would I counter? Stp, for sure, but it's on the low. It's dead against MUD, poor against dredge, mediocre against fish variants or heavy control. There are 23 preordains among other 15th top decks, averaging 1.5. I can be totally wrong, but I hate dead cards and I already play a bunch. I'd play 5th blast over 3rd misstep unless delver was heavy in the meta.
Only 2 mana? Sounds quite playable, and won't affect other formats too much so it could be printable. Unfortunately it hits storm really hard (and at this moment storm is not a deck to punish imho).
Mad Mage - RR
If a player would draw a card from a blue instant/sorcery, he/she discards a card instead.
Whenever a white creature enters the battlefield, Mad Mage does 2 damage to it and 2 to itself.
It attacks blue and white, as red did in the old times.
Priest of blood - 1RR
Sacrifice priest after you have been assigned damage: prevent all that damage and deal it to all other creatures and opponents instead
Say goodbye to alpha attacks (mentor, pyromancer, mud, eldrazi, dredge...)
I have also listened the MUD's player reasoning. Also from another perspective: there is always that person at a tournament that quickly loses chances because he was paired against a weird deck in first round and quickly lost chances to perform Top8. That was really usual years ago when there were lots of budget decks around playing 4 null rods: combo or blue players could be prepared against Tier 1 decks, but then suffer against rogue decks. However MUD is quite strong against most "rogue" decks, being a great deck to start winning rounds.
I also understand the gush player reasoning. Once you assume you have a deck capable of having a >50% wins, and capable of win rogue decks, you can focus on Tier 1 decks. Since gush decks are really Tier 1, focusing on the mirror totally makes sense.
In my case, I don't design my deck to maximize chances of winning random decks. I just try to pack some cards that I'm confortable with, bearing in mind tier decks. Since I don't play a tier deck, I never had to play a mirror (after about 40-50 rounds of tournament and dozens of matches in cockatrice), so I don't think at it at all.
I have already gotten some feedback on season 1, but please feel free to give me more via PM or in the facebookgroup.
Going back to the thread, I just watched the second video from the finals. Insane hands, specially from the winner (I have also lost to passing first turn with vault and key in play and losing the combo in my opponent's first turn).
I think it's a great idea to promote a MTGO european league, since timelines are really different accross the Atlantic ocean. Althought I'm not going to participate (I don't have a MTGO account and I don't plan to get one), I find really interesting that players can go a step beyond and make serious vintage testing there. Hey, you can actually create a community and meet at big european tournaments! That would be great for you and vintage community.
And if it's possible to upload the videos of every match, do it please
Palace jailer is interesting, but seems a bit odd against lots of decks. Against decks without creatures, triggered does nothing (but as long as it draws a card each turn, seems fine). Against decks with creatures, it's slow and there is a good possibility that even after you exile a creature, when jailer leaves battlefield you can easily lose the monarch, giving the advantage to opponent. However if these problems don't arouse, the card gives great advantage. Worth trying it in certain metagames.
@Topical_Island I'm not quite familiar with "Eldritch" meaning, but according to wordreference, "de horrores" is a bad translation indeed. However I cannot figure a right name. Luna misteriosa? Luna temible?
@PeAcH : Thanks for the lists and the beautiful images. Congrats to the top-8, specially to Padawan (Alex Delgado), our new co-champion (together with Miquel Alcoriza, winner of the regular season)!
I had the same problem last time playing elves, which shares some similarities. Mentor and pyromancer have the same advantages that tribal decks have, but their ability to control the game is much bigger. Combo decks are faster than you. And control decks have evolved to be effective against creatures. Not a good time to be in the tribal side of the road.